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UP THE HILL, DOWN THE HILL ...
... it's a common answer to the typical West Orange question: "Where do you live?" There are sections of West Orange, as there are demarcations in any town, that are stereotyped as "rich or poor" neighborhoods, "Black, White or Hispanic" neighborhoods, etc. In a town and school district so diverse, it is ironic how there could be segregation within its borders. Or is there?
Just as the Younger family faces resentment and discrimination when purchasing a house in Clybourne Park, you or someone you know may have experienced first-hand similar tension when moving to a new town or area. I distinctly remember when I first landed my teaching position at WOHS and told people where I would soon be working. I was caught off guard by their reactions: "That's a tough school"; "Are you going to be able to handle those kids?" I almost started buying into that mentality until I walked through those doors and met my first class of freshmen. There is no greater indication of the inaccuracy of those judgments than this simple fact: I have been here for eight years and have no intention of leaving any time soon. I love where I work and especially who I work for – you.
So why does WOHS get such a bad rap? Why do some families send their students to Seton Hall Prep, Mount Saint Dominic or Montclair Kimberly Academy? Why has the demographic of this town changed so drastically from the days of "Mountain High School" where the town consisted of more white faces than brown, yellow or black? Is there really such a thing as "white flight?"
Think about the situation the Youngers face. Has our world changed much from that era or is racism and discrimination just more hidden, more sugarcoated as Mr. Lindner projects in his comments?
I ironically graduated from Verona High School, just down PVW and around the corner. My parents live literally three minutes away from WOHS. My graduating class in 1997 consisted of 103 seniors. And the number of minority students in my grade could be counted on one hand - literally! I continued this sheltered experience at Villanova, fittingly referred to as "Vanilla-Nova," and look where I ended up: all the way at the other end of the spectrum, and I couldn't be happier. Some, like Cesar may say it's because I'm "ashy," but I just think it's because I like to view my world in color. Wouldn't you?
An anonymous comment posted as a response to an explanation of "White Flight" on Wisegeek.com:
"I see white America suffering from cultural relativism. Without tradition or religion, people tend to turn to nationalism, racial pride, or something else to keep their pack a cohesive group. So, you'll find many white people today using hate against the "others" to bring themselves together."
27 comments:
There are people who look at West Orange as a bad place. I don't think that the people who say this are trying to discriminate against people who live here though. I believe that these people are merely uneducated at how the town and school district function because they haven't experienced living here. The situation that the Youngers are in is a difficult one, but I think times have changed since then. Before people were racist based on hatred or untrue thoughts that they may have had about a certain race. If you look at a town like West Orange you will see that there are white people hanging out with Asians or black people who hang out with Hispanic people, so I do believe that racism has gone away in a sense. Of course, I am from West Orange, one of the most racially diverse towns around, so maybe I'm only thinking that racism has gone away because I live in a place where different people accept one another, but then again what do I know, I thought miss. Depalo was black.
The Youngers know for a fact that moving into Clybourne Park is a risk for the time being, but they know that if they are able to keep the house, it will benefit them in the long run. As long as they stick to their roots and know where they came from, a dominantly white community can do nothing to keep the Youngers out.
West Orange is a racially diverse town but that doesn't mean the town is the only exception to racism. My lunch table is the definition of diversity, but the other tables don't even come close to being as diverse as mine.
I think people are just more comfortable when they're around people who are the same race as them. To be completely honest I'd rather live in a town where the population is mostly Asian, only because I know I'll find more people that have common interests as myself.
West Orange not only has diversity, but it also has cliques based on race and people who fit into every stereotype out there.
I asked my boyfriend, who lives in Clifton, to invite ask his friends to come to West Orange for Halloween and when he told me that they were afraid of walking around our town I literally laughed out loud. I explained up the hill and down the hill to him then and informed him that everyone knows what it means. We do in fact have segregation in our town, maybe not intentionally but that's 'just the way it is'. Of course no one says "I hate black/spanish/asian/white people" but stand in the hallway between classes and I bet you will hear the word 'nigger' used at least twice. Most people claim its a joke but by saying it so casually makes it seem like it is acceptable.
I think there's a reason why West Orange has such a bad rep. I believe that racism comes from fear and fear is caused by ignorance of the thing you are afraid of. Most people really don't know about our town. They hear rumors and make assumptions without any knowledge or facts. Most people don't know about our amazing marching band or our outstanding special needs programs. They have only been told about school fights and the kids who smoke pot after school.
Looking at America as a whole and what the country has been through, I would say that it has definitely changed considering what life for African Americans (and other non-white people) has been like. When one looks at the country, he or she will say “Wow, things have really changed! A black president!” But not just that, I have seen many more African Americans work harder and try to be and do something that helps the community. However, does that mean that racism and hatred is extinct? Of course not; role models like Rush Limbaugh and others openly express their hatred towards black people. Others are quiet about it, but the hatred still remains in their actions and the way they look at the race as a whole.
In all my years of life, I have witnessed racism. But I was never really a victim of it because I grew up in an urban community which consisted of minorities. I remember the first week I moved to West Orange, I really did not know what to expect. I distinctly remember a day that I decided to sit on my front steps. There was this old Caucasian man and woman, who lived across the street, looking through their blinds. This continued for days and my mother told me not to go outside anymore. I knew why they were staring at me. It was pretty obvious. First of all, in the mid 1950’s my block consisted of ONLY white families living the “American” dream. As of the time my family and I moved in, there were about three African American families on the block. So it seemed as if the people who lived across from me were mad about how things changed. I remember that everybody on the block came to say hello EXCEPT for them. So to answer the ever lingering question, racism has definitely been toned down and sugarcoated.
The reason why I love the play “Raisin in the Sun” so much is because the whole idea resonates with me as a person. I ultimately believe that I had an easier time adjusting to this community than the Younger family did. Times have definitely changed, but can it change more; YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
West Orange is segregated, based on the mere fact if you live up the hill or down the hill. The idea is that the white rich people live up the hill and the poor black people live down the hill. My parent when they first moved into this town from Michigan had no more common sense than to buy a house in West Orange that was most convenient for my dad to get to work. My house so happens to be on the border with Montclair, which is where my dads train station is to get into the city. He had no idea that there was this great segregation in this town. This is going to be just like the Youngers situation except worst. They are going to move to a place where all the other houses are "up the hill" but their house is going to be the only "DTH house."
The word niqqa goes off every second in our school, either out of a black persons mouth and sometimes even some white kids. I do not think this word is bad unless said with a -er at the end. Then again i do not think that its a bad word either, i just think it is a frowned upon word along with all other "curse words."
I was talking to one of my Livingston friends, who said when he drove through west orange, he rolled up his windows. I responded with a laugh but then seriously asked him, what about when you drive though Newark?" And he answered that hes never drove through there. That is pure stereotypical remarks.
I think racism, segregation, and discrimination all comes from what kind of environment you have grown up in. I think if you took an average white kid from our school and and average white kid from Livingston. The white kid from our town would be able to work with a minority than the Livingston kid. We at west orange are just so used to having minorities around us.
I need Rachel Cooper's email address. Can someone email it to me? PPPPPLLLLEEEAAASSSEE
No matter what the town or city, segregation exists. For instance, the city of Newark has a well-known Portuguese section and an Italian area. Other towns have a similar “up the hill, down the hill” divide as in West Orange. Mr. Lindner’s statement, “most people get along better with their own kind” is true for many towns, clubs, and even places of worship. In growing up as a member of a predominantly white swim team of out-of-towners (with few exceptions), other swimmers’ skepticism concerning West Orange is not surprising. When “West Orange” is my response as to where I live, the usual reaction is shock and rancor. They just assume that all the Oranges are filled with “scary, low-class blacks” who do drugs and walk the streets. This is the popular perception of West Orange, yet, clearly this is not true, because I too, am a resident of WO.
“Up the hill” is usually associated with upper class, white skinned, “white collar” residents. In my neighborhood up the hill, there is a total of 3 black families amid 50+ houses. When traveling to the downtown area, there are people of all ethnicities milling about, but in particular, Hispanics and blacks. Families who were brought up in an all white area like to keep their kids in a white environment with limited exposure to the “other side.” So, when they send their kids to private schools, they are eliminating the problem, since these schools are costly and only affordable to a few. As time passes, more people seem to be integrating with other races, but the elderly generation feels more comfortable sticking with their “own kind.” West Orange is full of many personable people from different backgrounds, and although others may not appreciate the diversity, I am proud to call West Orange my home!
I believe that segregation is in every town not just here in West Orange. Our town is very diverse and everyone should be treated the same. Our school's name may frighten some people because they may hear about what goes on in "the valley". In our school there are good kids and there are bad kids but when some people think about WOHS all that comes to mind is the bad ones. Everyone associates West Orange with all the bad kids that live in town. This is part of the reason why some kids may want to move or go to private school. Sometimes it is not just because parents want their children to have a better education but to keep them away from a school they feel has a bad reputation. Everyone thinks that the kids who live in the valley are poor and typically it is not as wealthy as the "up the hill" area. This does not give anyone a right to discriminate against someone who lives on the other side of town. I live up the hill in a very nice neighbor hood and I have many friends who live in the valley. It is not a bad thing but people today see it as a negative thing to live in the valley. I hear racist remarks in the hallways everyday and it is pretty pathetic how some kids think that it is funny or makes them sound cool. Racism will only continue to grow with all the diversity in this town.
I had the option of going to Seton Hall Prep and MKA but said no because I knew that there was nothing to be afraid of in WOHS. My parents constantly want to move from this town but I tell them that I want to stay because I have had many memories here and would like to finish where I start. I enjoy the life that I live here and do not believe that people should discriminate against one another because of the part of town that they live in.
People just can't accept the fact that people are who they are and you can't change them. its up to you if you want to resist but when i take a look into the halls of west orange high school, it seems to me that people like the way it the school is. obviously, there is some type of segregation in the town, like us "ghetto" people as some would say live downtown while the "rich, snobby white people who think theyre better than anyone else when theyre actually not. my opinions are not based on those stereotypes but they occur in everyday life. people usually say when they hear i attend west orange high school that i could do way better than that and i have more potential. to be honest i really couldnt care less. atleast im having an education while there are other people in the world who dont have the same benefits as i do. living in this town is actually pretty interesting, considering the fact that before i came here i used to live in someplace where education wasnt the highest. my point is, what's wrong with a little diversity in school? you can't have everything in life the way you want it to be and you just have to live with that. if you really, with a burning passion wish do not attend a school with people "out of your race" then good luck finding a school that will satisfy your needs...
For most WOHS students, where they live, identifies them with whether they are rich, poor, or of different race. It is pretty much a fact that the rich people of West Orange live up the hill where the houses are huge and located in nice neighborhoods, and that people who can't afford those houses--not necessarily poor-- live down the hill with small houses and a 'different' neighborhood. In the beginning I always heard that people moved to West Orange for the great school system but today with such racial diversity and differences, some people opt out of living here even if they want their childern to attend our schools. On my street this year, we have had two houses for sale and nobody has bought either of them yet. I guess people are afraid of West Orange for ignorant assumptions of our town.
Each lunch period embodies our town's segregation in my opinion. My table is very diverse and we notice that around us there is a table of all white people and next to them is a table of hispanic people. We all get along fine but I think that most humans feel more comfortable with their own race. I think that we all need to get over the fact that everyone has a different skin color or background and mingle with everyone no matter what because I know that's what I do and not one bad thing has come out of that. I get along with most people no matter what and their race or background, my opinion of that person doesn't change.
The Youngers are going to have a tough time in Clybourne Park and they know that, but they are going to have to not let how other people percieve them effect them either. Deep down, we are all the same but people just have issues accepting that fact. At the end of the day, we will have to accept that fact, the entire world as a whole, because otherwise, we can't have a functional environment where people aren't discriminated against even in the tiniest ways, everywhere you look.
No our era has not changed from the era of racism shown in the book. In every town you go into the label certain parts of the town more cheap/ ghetto and other parts more rich and wealthy. Even if the town is an overall poor town such as Irvington they still consider certain parts of their town to be ritzy while other parts are thought to be cheap, and for the poor people. In West Orange I don't really feel like a white flight happened I feel that after a while more and more black and spanish people from towns like East Orange and Orange became able to afford small houses down the hill in West Orange(the Valley) so they decided to move here. I don't actually feel to many white people are moving I just feel the amount of minorities that have now moved in have just overshadowed the once big white population. Even on my street block of about 48 house there are only 8 black owned houses the rest are white families
Somehow, for whatever reason, I don't think racism will ever end. Although there is less open racism now than 60 years ago, there is still a lurking sense of racism wherever you go. Just by going into the cafeteria at lunchtime, you can see that some tables are predominantly black and others are mostly white. Racist slurs still fly around the hallways everyday. It's just that they're so commonly used that people don't consider it racism anymore.
However, people from other towns seem to think that West Orange is a bad town where people get shot up all the time...West Orange is simply a diverse town with good people and bad people. That's the same in every town. It's just that for some reason, people always tend to remember the negatives, and never the positives, so our town is given a bad rep.
The whole up the hill/down the hill thing is nonsense. No matter where you go in West Orange, you're sure to find diversity. Some people simply aren't as fortunate as others, and therefore can't afford to live in the nicest houses in the best area, but that doesn't mean that they're necessarily bad people.
To this day, my father still thinks this town is racist. It reminds him of the town he used to live in, Canarcey (forgive my spelling)His first day of High School there a White child walked up to him and called him a nigger, and spit in his face. My father did what some people a "Falcon Punch!" The child was knocked out. The Youngers lived in a much more Brutal time than us today. The are at the most, 60 times more likely to be killed back then than today since people are more educated (and know they will get in serious trouble) Open-minded and some rather sugarcoat the racism like Mr. Linder. (60 times is just as many times a new york cab driver is more likely to be killed than the average person, but thats a little off topic.)
I live at the bottom of the hill, borderline orange to be exact. It is not as bad as people think. It all depends on how people take care of their property. My mom's friend and her daughter live in a rather beautiful part of East Orange. But most people take on the Sterotype that its the hood. So people need to come down to the bottom of the hill before making conclusions. The only time the neighborhood looks disgusting is when there is slush, and car driven-dirty snow on the ground.
One of the reasons I think that West Orange has such a bad reputation is because of the towns around us. It seems to be that West Orange is so much more diverse than Livingston and Verona. Our town consists of all races unlike other towns. From the friends I have from Livingston, most of them are white or Asian and from Verona, they're all white.
I find that most parents end up sending their child to SHP, MSDA, or MKA because of what they hear about West Orange High School or they just want their child to have the best education possible. From hearing the classes my friends from other schools have, we are very fortunate for having a variety of electives, regular, honors, and AP classes.
Racism and discrimination has gone down, but I personally think it'll always be around. Like Sai said about the up the hill/down the hill situation, I agree. People from other towns need to stop judging us on how our town in perceived. They should base us on what our town has to offer.
Well things have certainly changed from day in which the Youngers lived. Racism certainly exists, but it doesn't have the power that it once had. Not too long ago, perhaps 8 months ago I saw that the KKK was posting flyers for admission into their group on the tv. Obviously racism exists, but if this group is reaching out for help it clearly shows they do not have the support they once did. However, the decades of hate that has been going has left its mark on everyone. Small remnants of this fowl behavior is displayed through racist jokes and small stupid segregations like up and down the hill. I live up the hill and I'm not rich. My parents struggle make their bills disappear and almost lost their jobs. My father works two part time jobs as a Paramedic and is often thrown under the bus by his boss. I see drugs deal go down just as often as you would see down the hill and I get such as disappointed. Truth is that you can separate the hill into as many sections as you want, but it is still a hill. One hill that reaches for the sky and has an important foundation which makes the hill stable.
Lucky enough for people that go to WOHS or live in west orange, we all see diversity at its peak everyday. We are not clueless about the other types of races in the world because we are experiecing all of that in our everyday lives. For the Youngers they only experieced certain people in there life. They only saw other black people and the first white character to appear in the play is a man that shows up to bribe them into not moving into a white tows.
Only towns around us find our school to be intimidating but yet it is not. My brother went to Seton Hall Prep and my parents are now experiencing me going to WOHS. In there opinion they say that WOHS has more oppurtunities for those that want to succeed. They are toward me going to west orange because of the many AP classes or the different kinds of experiences i would get by going to West Orange
Segregation and racism still exist. However, I think stereotyping is also a huge part of it. West Orange is stereotyped by "up the hill" and "down the hill" whereas "down the hill" is thought to be where the less wealthy, people of color live. While "up the hill" is thought to be where rich white people live. I think this stereotype causes people to segregate themselves because they feel they might fit in in certain areas better than others.
I must admit, I get a pretty big kick out of people's reactions to my stating that I live down the hill. It's funny because I'm so incredibly white, so people assume I'd live up the hill.
The segregation that exists today (in West Orange, that is) is not nearly so bad as the segregation that the Youngers (or families like them) may have had to face. I feel that human beings are slowly evolving in morals and understanding of other human beings, and eventually there will be no discrimination of this kind.
In my opinion the world has change dramatically. We started off with having blacks as white plantation owner’s slaves, and now you look at the world, and America has a black man as president. The world and our country have taken huge steps to allow diversity, and to gain acceptance for many cultures and colors. I personally believe that discrimination will never end, there is always going to be hatred against different ethnic groups, and no mater what laws are made, people will hate. America would always be divided into classes socially and economically. If you look at West Orange it is divided from up the hill and down the hill, our school hallways are divided in many different cliques. Gladly our school is not like other school completely separated by race. Even though there are cliques, at West Orange High School, whites talk to blacks, and it is not segregated to how it uses to be back than. Unlike the Younger’s family, in West Orange a black person can move into this town with out there being a problem. When reading the play “Raisin in the Sun” I was very glad that Walter made the decision to move in Clybourne Park. They where brave, and ready to make a change in society and that takes a lot of courage. With courage you can succeed in life and change the world.
Regardless what town you live in there is in fact some sort of racism in one way or another. My dad grew up in chatham massachusetts which is in the cape cod area. The majority of people who grew up there especially from his time were white. He admits even he himself was a bit racist to the students who attended his high school that weren't like the rest of the kids there. To this day whatever town you live in similar situations happen daily.
Whenever I meet some one new and I tell them where I'm from and the high school I attend I always get the same old questions. Its usually a "how do you live there?" or even a "oh... That's ghetto.". People don't seem to understand that our town isn't newark, or east orange, or orange, or irvington. What I hate the most is having to constantly explain the whole ordeal of the difference between living up the hill and down the hill. Honestly people would never truly understand this town unless they took there time and came here to realize how different the two parts of our town are. If we like it or not West Orange is a very diverse town and it does have its positives and negatives. One negative is that for the most part there is a huge economical difference in two different parts of the town "up the hill" and "down the hill" where as up the hill is where the nicer houses, and less criminal acts are. And as far as positives go I feel that living in a town like West Orange being around every different type of person there is in this world gives me and every other student a bit of an advantage. I say this because I now know and understand how to treat everyone from all ways of life where as most typical white boys and many may call people like myself don't. This really does prepare me and my fellow classmates for our futures wherever we go and wherever life takes us at least we all grew up in an area where we were all taught life lessons so in the real world we will most likely have less problems than people who lived and grew up in an area where there were only one type of race would.
I agree with Cesar. A ot of people just are ignorant and don't know what West Orange is like. I have gone to the Livingston why to play basketball and people have asked me if West Orange was ghetto and if there were a lot of fights and gangs. I was very suprised at this but I explained that West Orange was a good place to live. I think the demographic has changed because of white flight but mostly because of different people moving here knowing that it is a good place to live. The youngers situation was much different. They faced racism directly. The world has changed from that time but there is still racism. However, the racism is sugarcoated because people want to be politically correct. I do believe that the America doesn't have as much racism as it used to.
i agree with sai when he says racism will never end. No matter where you go people, one person or another will judge based on what they see first, which is your skin color, more often than not. West Orange is not a bad place to live, but at the same time, I'm not going to go around saying how West Orange is that great. Things go on in this town, but then again it is not as bad as the things that go on in other neighboring towns, but then again, everthing is relative. In West Orange, there are stereotypes, and segregation of different sorts. One major stereotype in the one involving living up or down the hill. People tend to associate living up the hill with more money, and vice versa with down the hill. There are also many stereotypes regarding race, and religion, and other aspects of people lives. But unlike other people, I don't discriminate. I make fun of all types of people using stereotypes, but i know when to draw the line, and many people dont understand that. for example "What did a white guy see when he looked at his family tree?
A straight line!" This is just a joke, it is not meant to be taken seriously.
Although some people are right when they think even today there is racism, its for one not nearly as noticeable, or as big of a problem as it was back then. Most people in our school think the Livingston kids are ‘snobby, rich, white people,’ which in some cases is true but not always. My friend who lives in Livingston her whole life, is jealous that I go to West Orange, being so diverse, and different from hers. Also some of my friends at camp, when they ask where I go to school and I say West Orange, they say things like, “isn’t that like really ghetto? “ what I say to things like that is in a way is it, but I doesn’t mean their not nice people or their any different than we are. I live “up the hill”, as people here call it, but last year when I first came here, people asked me where do I live, “up the hill, or down the hill?” I wasn’t sure what that meant when I first got here, and many people just knew I was new and from private school because I didn’t know what it meant. I felt like they thought they were better than me, because they knew it, and everything. Since I’ve been here I have gotten to really appreciate people different than me, and I love our school because of the diversity we have here. Many kids in our school cannot understand why I love it here, but if they went to an all Jewish-white private school for 9 years then might not hate the school their in now so much. I think the diversity we have in our school, and that we generally do not discriminate against anyone based on race, is great, and its another reason why I love our school.
Racism has changed in a way from the previous eras. Yet again, it demonstrates that racism still underlines all the problems in the world. Racism has been going on since the begining and it has inproved, but it still has not fully came to a hault. As Mr. Lindner has demonstrated racism in a sugarcoated form it shows that racism is still floating around but in an undercover form. There are more forward ways to state racism, but there are also more secretive ways too. The way Mr. linder talks he is sugarcoating his racism. Whether someone sugarcoats racism or says things upforward, racism will always be around. But it will be showed in different ways.
Segragation does exist in West Orange. Many believe that West Orange has a diverse population. Although the town may be diverse, the same races tend to stick together. Many people of a ceartin race do live in the same areas of West Orange but if someone of different race moves into the neighborhood, they are not usually looked at in a different way. West Orange has suchba bad reputation because of the fact hat ovr he years there has been a gradual increase in the numbr of blacks who live in this town. People go to private schools in West Orange to get away from WOHS because these public schools are looked upon as better than the public school. Our school has not changed much since the era talked about in the book Raisin In The Sun. Many people in the world continue to discriminate but this discrimination is hidden.
Up until the end of 3rd grade I lived in West Orange and where someone lived was only described by what your address was. On the the first day, or sometime close to it, my friend asked me if i lived "up the hill" or "down the hill" and I had no idea what he meant by it. After he explained I said, "Wow, that's completely retarded." and he agreed. So, after I tried to figure out when West Orange had become Communist, I told him I was down the hill and that the only thing I thought that sucked about West Orange was the music. To this day (although I am kind of glad I left West Orange ad avoided it's changes) the thought of up the hill down or how much name brand clothes and accessories someone has never crosses my mind.
I would like to think that parents send their kids to private schools to have a better education, but if they want to think that their kids are better off without African or Spanish influence then that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their kids do not have to listen to what their parents say when it comes to racial ideals. They should at least be smart enough to figure out what is right or wrong for themselves. The only problem that should be dealt with in racism is actually beating up or killing others because you think "they do not belong."
"White flight" is something that I really hope is not a legit term and is also, as I previously stated, an opinion people are entitled to. Racism, unless it is physically applied, is not as big of a deal as a lot of other events of today's "Perfect World." The Youngers really do not have it as bad as they say since they have a nice place to live, family that can have meaningful conversations with one another, and one that cares enough to be there when it means the most. They are really lucky people and do not even consider it once yet. In fact, they would most likely laugh if you told them so and tell you of their "struggles."
I think a huge problem that we still face today is racism. We have a bad reputation because people think that it is bad to have black people in west orange highschool, when our school is actually good academically. some parents send their kids to seton hall prep because they are racist against african americans and hispanics. I believe there is a such thing as white flight because there are many racists in west orange.
i believe that today racism is just more hidden. people are scared to show it but it is still there. People should not judge a book by its cover. ms.depalo is a great example, she did not judge anyone until she came to the school and to her surprise it was not bad at all. We are all humans and deserve to be treated the same.
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